Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war

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Re: Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war

Bing Bangboom
The wise man does at once what the fool does finally.
Niccolo Machiavelli


  The timely arrival of Tora Bushido in thread leads to the next installment of my war blog.  Before I get to that I'm going to respond to his specific point. I did say "As far as I can tell" because it was indeed an assumption; one based on personal observation.   I saw it as a warning to myself for when I attempted to engage mercenaries on my own.

  Which I did.  Attempt it, anyway.  I sent an email to Tora Bushido and, as always, he promptly answered.  It is really a pleasure dealing with professionals....

A Mutually Benficial Request
From: Bing Bangboom
Sent: 2013.05.14 03:45
To: Tora Bushido


CEO Bushido,

With the end of your obligations to U.S.A.T.O in our current disagreement I hope to find you open to an offer to hire your organization. I refer, of course, to the U.S.A.T.O POS located at Ashokon XIII-Moon 15. I would like it removed.

Would you please forward a quote, including your terms, for providing such a service? I prefer to use an established mercenary alliance with a reputation for contract fullfillment, such as the Marmite Collective, to a couple of jumped up new wanna-be merc outfits who have approached me after seeing my war blog.

I also would like to have an agreed upon completion date included in the contract. I am not in an extreme hurry but I would like to know when to expect the contract to fill for the sake of war plans.

As always, a pleasure to speak with you,

Highsec is worth fighting for.

Bing Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable

Men should be either treated generously or destroyed, because they take revenge for slight injuries - for heavy ones they cannot.
Niccolo Machiavelli


  Taking the advice of several commenters and following my own inclinations I began the process of attacking the POS.  The destruction of this asset would be a significant setback to U.S.A.T.O and represents a significant increase in the war effort in terms of ISK spent and damage done/received.  However, one of the drawbacks of dealing with a professional organization that takes the long view was that CEO Bushido declined my request to negotiate a POS removal fee because he saw it as bad for business to wardec a client, even one without an active contract.  

  Although disappointed somewhat I continued the discussion.

Re: A Mutually Benficial Request
From: Bing Bangboom
Sent: 2013.05.14 14:10
To: Tora Bushido

CEO Bushido,

  I suspected this would be your answer and I respect that.  As you know, I am learning through this experience and am not clear on the ins and outs of mercenary work.

  Since I am an Agent of the New Order and we like to use the carebears own weapons against them I thought using their own former allies to remove their POS was an interesting twist.  More of a style thing.

  Just for my education, what do you normally charge to remove a highsec POS?  I saw you advertise the service on your Eve-O forum thread and I expect to be negotiating with some other mercenary group about it.  I understand if you decline to give specifics or if its one of those "it depends" kind of things.  Still, any advice about it is appreciated.

 Best regards,

  BBB

  If you peruse my earlier emails with CEO Bushido you will see he is very direct when answering questions including declining to answer if he felt it was not in the interest of his client or himself.  By limiting myself to useful but not tactical information I was able to get an answer.  With his permission,

Re: A Mutually Benficial Request
From: Tora Bushido
Sent: 2013.05.14 14:43
To: Bing Bangboom

We avoid doing large posses. Sometimes we do (online) small and offline mediums posses. Prices all depend on client. Thats all part of the negotiations.... :) Roughly said, we do not pass the 1B mark for almost all decs. For most decs we have a base fee of 750m/week.

Tora

  Well, this throws quite a monkey wrench in my plan.  The U.S.A.T.O POS is a medium Amarr which is definitely not offline (side note, aren't hisec POSs normally Caldari for the research?).  I wouldn't characterize it as well defended but defended it is.  I ran market prices on the tower and its deployed components and I reckon the replacement cost as around a billion ISK.  Since my goal was to inflict economic damage on my enemy that was disproportionate to my own a mercenary hire for the job might not be a good fit.

  Although self defended, there are almost never any actual on-line players to contest a ship or fleet attacking the POS directly.  The largest weapons are medium beam types.  They hit my Jaguar out at 250km if I show them some leg.  Could a battleship survive long enough to slowly take out the defenses one by one?  Is this worth doing in terms of putting pressure on my WTs?  Going to work on this a bit and see.  I have a battleship (somewhere.. I have too much stuff) and can use large autocannons.  As a close in, knife fighter I've neglected artillery.  I need to look into training that now.

  I will continue to look for a way to actually engage a fleet to do the job while crunching some numbers to see what makes economic sense.  Like always, the journey is the fun thing and I'm learning more and more every day.

No enterprise is more likely to succeed than one concealed from the enemy until it is ripe for execution.
Niccolo Machiavelli


DOH!

BBB
Highsec is worth fighting for.
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Re: Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war

Zak Fey
I'm not trying to be negative here, but destroying a PoS solo is nearly impossible. Not only will you have to deal with the guns, which is possible if you stack resists for the gun type, stay aligned, you might be able to get away with an active tank. However the tower itself would take a life time to destroy, not only do you have to beat down its millions of HP, but you'll also have to be fighting its passive shield regen. Then you'll have to come back the next day after the rf, in which you will have to blast through another couple million in HP.
This is assuming they don't show up. If they do though it might get you a good fight, but being caught with your pants down in a BS would be hard loss for the war.

My advice is to use the less experienced mercs as they *should* cost a lot less. If you do ever consider a  professional merc corp again, I would recommend  Noir. Mercenary Group if Tora won't play game.

 Shame the PoS wasn't in low sec or you could've hired me. :p

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Re: Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war

Bing Bangboom
What's up, Doc? I ain't no Doc. I'm a pirate - Seagoing Sam, the blood-thirstiest, shoot 'em first-iest, doggone worst-iest buccaneer that's ever sailed the Spanish main!
Yosemite Sam


  Today's episode has a special guest star!  An episode in which a great opportunity presents itself...

  While pondering the advice I have received about the feasibility of actually dropping a medium size highsec POS from the mercenary brain trust, I continued my pattern of afk cloaking, locating Agent usage and popping into systems where my War Targets were attempting to do some mining or missions.  I saw one of them that I hadn't seen on before and tracked him down to Rens, quite a distance from the corp home system.  I managed to find him in station and followed him to another but never got an eye on him.  Apparently though, my presence had been noted...

  And so, I received the following email the next day.

got a convo request last night

From: John E Normus
To: Bing Bangboom


Conversation from last night 05:00 EVE time. The hero in the following convo is marked in green and the villain is marked in red.


John E Normus > hi!

Industria McMinerist > Hi!!

Industria McMinerist > Do you have a moment to chat?

John E Normus > always

Industria McMinerist > Are you familiar with a Mr Bing Bangboom?

John E Normus > I am

Industria McMinerist > So he is part of your organization? :)

John E Normus > kind of.

John E Normus > different part

John E Normus > we don't mix

John E Normus > why?

Industria McMinerist > Oh darn, Well it seems his war against the alliance my corp is in, has cause my entire corp to stop playing for over a month... while I was taking a break

Industria McMinerist > I've tried to contact him but he is always afk or something

Industria McMinerist > I was wondering if I could pay him for protection, but if he isnt a part of you guys I suppose talking to you wont help me

John E Normus > it will help

John E Normus > Bing taught me how to bump. we go way back

Industria McMinerist > Nice :)

John E Normus > i'm just into eliminations now

John E Normus > so, we don't interact as much anymore

Industria McMinerist > oh cool

John E Normus > what do you want me to take to Bing?

Industria McMinerist > I dont know? poke him with a stick? perhaps open up conversation with me? :)

John E Normus > kk, hang on

John E Normus > he's not responding to my hails

Industria McMinerist > yeah from what I heard he mostly hides somewhere cloaked and scares everyone away by being online lol

John E Normus > yeah

John E Normus > let me try something else

John E Normus > hang on

John E Normus > well, i dropped him a mail but i doubt he'll get it tonight.

John E Normus > i'll get him asap tomorrow and get an answer

John E Normus > i added you. if you're on i'll invite you to chat

Industria McMinerist > Well as long as I can get ahold of him someday I'll be happy, Im kinda tired of mineing so far away... its going to be a pain to move these rocks if my corp ever comes back

Industria McMinerist > Cool thanks!

John E Normus > okay, we'lll fix this o7

Industria McMinerist > thanks John :)

John E Normus > np

John E Normus > nn


Please advise,
John

ps LMAO, you're awesome!

  Starring in the role of John E Normus is  JOHN E NORMUS!!!

 “Blast your scuppers ya barnacle bitten landlubber … come down here and fight like a man!”
Yosemite Sam


I sent back the following to John...


Re: got a convo request last night

From: Bing Bangboom
To: John E Normus

John,

Thanks for sending this. Its amazing that when he needed New Order help he went right to someone who sincerely loves to help the miners. Help them out of their ships and pods of course. He couldn't have done better if he had gone to GP or Fawn.

I've given the matter some thought and I believe this could be played to both extract some ISK from the fellow AND lead him into a ship loss trap. I suggest you contact him back via Eve mail. I am taking the liberty of writing out the message you should send him. Change it a bit as you see fit, especially to make it sound like you and not me.

(Text begins here)

hi!

I checked with our leadership about the war and found out they know all about it. Your alliance leader liberty kicked Bing out of the alliance for being an Agent of the NO. Bing has tried to teach liberty and Zing1 about The Code but liberty has been stubborn. That's why the war is so long. The New Order isn't getting involved right now but it look like there is some Code violations going on.

According to the boss, your entire alliance is on the Red Pen List. You can see what this is by going to www.minerbumping.com and clicking on The Code link. If you want to get off it you will have to buy a mining permit for 30 million ISK which is three times the normal cost. Then you have to change your bio to say "I support James 315 and the New Order of Highsec". You could send the ISK to either me or Bing but I suggest you send it to me because Bing might just take your ISK and not put you on the list.

Once you have bought the permit and I get you on the list, Bing can't attack you because of the oath we all swear to when we join the NO. Additiohnally we can send Agents to watch you mine so if Bing tries anything there will be witnesses and they will warn him not to bother you.

Let me know if you want to go this route. Bing can be kind of stubborn and although he is an Agent, he kind of hates miners more than the rest of us and takes things a bit personal. Still, he wouldn't do anything any other Agent would once someone is on the list.

John



What do you think? Fix it up if it sounds off.

Thanks,

Bing Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable

  To cut to the chase, John sends the aforementioned email to Industria McMinerist.  The response is not long in coming.

FW: Re: Bingbang Boom

From: John E Normus
To: Bing Bangboom
INBOX
Remove Label

It's OVER!

--------------------------------
Re: Bingbang Boom
From: Industria McMinerist
Sent: 2013.05.19 17:43
To: John E Normus,

30 Million is a bit more than I hoped to pay, but I will comply :)
Hopefully by publicly displaying my support of James 315 and the New Order of Highsec, I will get my inactive corp kicked from this chickenshit alliance.

And in a completely out of character view of the situation...
The Code is very well written, while liberty's bio appears to have been written by a child who needs to spend more time learning grammar and spelling, and less time sucking at EVE.


  As has been stated in the past in situations like this... VICTORY TO THE NEW ORDER!

  And Industria McMinerist has been true to his word.  The 30 million ISK was received (and John sent it to me although he didn't have to.  Thanks!) and the beeo is updated in large yellow letters.

  I could play this a couple ways.  The obvious way is to use the expectation of safety that IM thinks he has and locate him and blow up his ship.  BUT IM seems to be a pretty good compliant miners and  THERE IS ANOTHER ANGLE.  Perhaps he isn't the only alliance member who would pay for a separate peace...  

  So, tonight I am going to compose and send an email to each of my war targets.  In it, I will propose that they pay their Red Pen List mining permit fee and update their biographies to indicate their support for James 315 and the New Order.  I will offer to not hunt, shoot or otherwise annoy any individual who meets my demands and who stays out of any enforcement actions I do take against the non compliant.  Each one who complies will, of course, fund the war against their alliance leadership while sowing dissent in the ranks as I make it very clear to liberty and co. that this is occurring.  

  If one Agent in U.S.A.T.O is one too many, how many Code compliant miners will it take to get a corp kicked?  

“The first dang Yankee that steps out of that dugout, gets his head blasted off!”
Yosemite Sam


HUGE thanks to John E Normus for setting all this up and carrying it to fruition.  New Order Agents are the best people in Eve.

BBB
Highsec is worth fighting for.
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Re: Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war

Bing Bangboom
The art of statesmanship is to foresee the inevitable and to expedite its occurrence.
Charles Maurice de Talleyrand


  Why we fight

From: Bing Bangboom
To: Dovos, Andwin Andedare, Brinkkk, Dionne Leveque, Danous Solarwind, Darth Creeper, Death Royale, Break Shadowcaste, Dealtus, Death Teacher, etc etc

Hello U.S.A.T.O Members,

As our war enters its fifth week, with no end in sight, I felt it a good time to go over how we got here; and to propose a path forward.

As many of you may or may not know, I was a long time member of Ded End Damage, a constituent corporation of your alliance. As the only active member of the corporation besides Tristam Xavier , who was VERY inactive, I kept the corporation name at the top of the kill boards and on the minds of illegal jetcan miners throughout Caldari Highsec. But I had a secret. Actually, it was not a very well kept secret. To tell the truth it was a widely broadcast secret, so not really a secret at all. I was, in fact, an Agent of the New Order of Highsec.

Unless you have been living under an asteroid for the last several months, or are a bot, you will know that the New Order of Highsec exists to bring all highsec miners into the light of knowledge known as the New Halaima Code of Conduct. This can be found at www.minerbumping.com . I invite you to visit and peruse both The Code and the many adventures of the Agents (and Knights) of the New Order as we have brought system after system into full Code compliance. It is an inspiring story. On one side, the mining bots and their supporters, the bot aspirants. On the other, James 315 and the Agents (and Knights) of the New Order. As a leading force of emergent gameplay in Eve I was bringing honor and fame to my corporation and alliance while doing real good for the game.

Alas, liberty and a couple of druids then resident in the corp did not see the larger picture. He ordered Tristam to rein me in, he ordered me to stop enforcing The Code and he made ill informed and poorly written allusions about piracy and griefing and other non related subjects. This culminated with the ejection of DAMAG from the alliance with an ultimatum that they could not rejoin until one particular demand was met. And so I was kicked from my corp after almost 600 days as a member.

I tried reasoning with liberty. I tried education. I tried to inspire him with the view of a bot-free highsec. None of this worked. And so... I declared war. To date, I have survived individual combat (lost a couple Jags in there though, damn Hob IIs) but have taken out some of your fellow U.S.A.T.O members ships. And I planned to continue for as long as it took to satisfy the wrong done to me. And then something happened.

Yesterday one of your fellow U.S.A.T.Oites contacted the New Order about making peace with me. Just him. An offer was made by New Order leadership on bringing this member into compliance with The Code which would satisfy the NO and myself. The offer was accepted and I am have marked Industria McMinerist as Code compliant and OFF my target list. He may now mine or mission in peace as long as he does not break The Code or engage in hostilities against me.

I now offer each of you the same proposition. By paying 30,000,000 ISK (the fee for a permit for someone on the Red Pen List, which you are all on, and for updating your bio to include "I support James 315 and the New Order of Highsec" you may individually withdraw from this war. You can mine or mission or haul or whatever it is you enjoy without watching over your shoulder for my arrival. I CAN find you. Just ask Hepitah .

I await your responses. Please make sure to Eve mail me while sending the ISK. I will respond so you know our treaty is complete. Until then, check six.

Highsec is worth fighting for.

Bing Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable

To succeed in the world, it is much more necessary to possess the penetration to discern who is a fool, than to discover who is a clever man.
Charles Maurice de Talleyrand


Re: Why we fight

From: Papa Lazarough
To: Bing Bangboom

lol dude you barking up the wrong tree Bing bong go screw your order, you just carebears of high sec holding good peeps to ransom for 30mil and that charictor is most likly an alt of yours no one else in the aliance would comply with you for sure Bing bong haha. So yea i got my answer for you go fly in to the sun and fry dude, and take your order with you im sticking by Lib you just nuts haha nothing more than carebear ganking goonswarm copy cat's. You lot make me laugth, nothng but the sort that just like to pick on noobs and good folk round high sec so yea go fry or get under that rock you came from is my reply dude.

Ones reputation is like a shadow, it is gigantic when it precedes you, and a pigmy in proportion when it follows.
Charles Maurice de Talleyrand


Re: Why we fight

From: Padreuk73
To: Bing Bangboom, nik P, Minister Hawk, Legionair1980, liberty, ksknight ksclans, Michael Dearden, mastabatrix, Koon Kahoona

Greetings and salutations,

I trust you will forgive any delay in replying to your eve mail, we all have lives outside of EVE that require our attention from time to time.

Before I continue, I would like to request an indulgence. I notice your posts on the website and the body of your communications comes across with
an almost religious zeal, a crusaders passion if you will. I simply wondered if this is a persona you project onto your character or is it simply a natural
extension of you own personality. This is simply personal curiosity and nothing more.

I will reply to any significant points presented in your text in order to preserve continuity.

First, yes I am aware of James 315 and the Knights of the new order. I have visited minerbumping.com, I have read “The New Halaima code” and other
posts contained within the site. I have been aware of the James 315 movement for some time but will admit to have given its objectives little thought. This could easily be explained by a very limited number of interactions with the followers of James 315’s ideas (as any movement takes time to build significant momentum) and the location of our operations within the last year. Which your research has correctly determined to be Ashokon. I respect the right of people to play EVE however they wish (for me that includes AFK miners too) and I respect your right to play the game in whatever style best suits you. If that is imposing The New Halaima code on others then I will not say you shouldn’t. I will however state that I do not support it.
I find it to be nothing more than organised piracy dressed up in a few pretty phrases.

The facts within your text stand for themselves however a simple restatement will not hinder this communication.

Your corp was ejected due to your actions because we were unable to contact your CEO to clarify his position. After a number of reports regarding your actions the decision was made by consensus. When your CEO came back online the conditions for e-joining the alliance were made clear and the choice left to him.

I do wonder what you expected? Your corp joined what is primarily a mining alliance that does not support (currently of course, all things remain in a state of flux) The New Halaima code or any of the other doctrines from the followers of James 315. Did you think that by example you would simply convert others in the alliance? If you did I would say that is a surprisingly naïve position to take. If not, then it is preposterous of you to enter a mining alliance and then to complain when kicked from the alliance for bumping miners. Either way, the only wrong that has been committed is a figment of your imagination. You are of course free to play the game anyway you wish however every decision comes with consequences.

“ I tried reasoning with liberty. I tried education” reasoning…possibly, education…no, education requires evidence to support your position. What you actually tried was indoctrination and now that has failed you have resorted to the only realistic tactic left open to you, conflict.
If you choose resort to conflict when indoctrination fails and have the opportunity to withdraw but fail to take it, then you are in effect simply trying to bully those around you. Attempting to wrap your actions up in a doctrine and labelling yourself as an “Agent of the new order”, spouting drivel such as “I was bringing honor and fame to my corporation and alliance while doing real good for the game.” Is self-indulgent and narcissistic. You may do as you wish but do not try to make yourself the hero, that is for others to judge.

I spoke to Hepitah, he was disappointed in himself with losing his ship. He claimed to have had one or two too many drinks at the time however the kill is still yours regardless. There have been skirmishes and I expect there will be opportunities for more.

We are aware of Industrial McMinerist and the choice he has made, it was his to make after all. I somehow doubt he really supports the code, I think it far more likely that he simply wishes to play without harassment.

The war has been an annoyance certainly but while it may have curtailed the alliances ability to earn ISK it has not had the same effect on me. Mining is not my primary source of ISK, it never was and I am quite comfortable moving around EVE as I am able to do my business in many areas. Moving also has the added bonus of reducing the effectiveness of your AFK cloaking tactic as it forces you to move around. Did you modify you initial tactics after losing the Jags? Your tactics were initially those of a shooting war, now they seem to be relying on intimidation. I admit that for my own amusement I have jumped from system to system with you in pursuit, both of us in Cov ops Frigates, just to see how long I could get you to keep jumping around.
( I do find it amusing that you have no objection to playing AFK cloaked but dislike people mining AFK, is it the generation of the ISK that bothers you?).

Regarding being present on the Red Pen List, I actually kind of like that but don’t find myself worrying about it in the slightest.

I have absolutely no intention of paying you or any other “Agent” a single ISK nor will I be updating my bio. That being said that is only my personal position, the choice made with the alliance may not run along the same lines. That is a collective choice and as a committed member to my corp/alliance I will abide by the collective decision.

I will send a copy of this to Liberty so that the communication between us all is open and frank.

High Sec isn’t yours to save or dictate to.

I thank you for your communication and hope this reply finds you well.

Padreuk73.

If we go on explaining we shall cease to understand one another.
Charles Maurice de Talleyrand


Bing Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable
Highsec is worth fighting for.
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Re: Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war

Rennseslear
Padreuk73 sounds like hed rather play with himself.
Ewe Oar Sofa King We Tall Did
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Re: Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war

Bing Bangboom
  Another response poured in...

Re: Why we fight

From: Syrax Vanity
To: Bing Bangboom

what gives you the right to say to me i have to pay you 30mil to do what i do remember i was the the one that killed you with those hobgob II's for what i do in this game i don't pat any other player for them to (allow) me to do it


(COME GET ME)

regards syrax vanity 2-0 .I..

  Which is true.  He is the one who killed two of my Jaguars early in the war.  My two kills in May had somewhat evened things up.  And then came this.

  Here is someone who should have taken the deal.  A member of Prime Resource Investment Minning Econnermy (I can't decide if these Popeye spellings are some sort of joke or if its a sad comment on modern education) named Wilo Phobic was online as I was sending out my emails.  Using the time I was composing my missive I set a locating Agent on his trail and soon got word that he was in Eular system.

  This should not have surprised me.  Way back when Ded End Damag had been in Ded End Conglomorates there was a sister corp named, wait for it, Ded End Mining Company.  The membership of this corp used to complain mightily about my can flipping activities.  I never flipped THEIR cans.  They just didn't like the idea.  Wilo Phobic was in this particular corporation.  Many of them were ok guys and WP could have been one of them.  He left long ago and I only remember him because his name is kinda memorable.  

  In any case, long story short.. nah, forget that, I can't tell short stories, Eular was the scene of many a Ded End Mining Co mining op and Wilo Phobic was just in his old haunts.  Haunts which were 21 jumps away from where I was.  So I grab my Jaguar and off I go....

  Upon arriving in Eular I began Dscanning asteroid belts while flying to investigate any mining ships that pinged.  I'd like to say I efficiently scanned him down in under 60 seconds or something impressively overpowering like that but it took me a full 10 minutes before I warped into a belt and found him mining away in his Mack.

  He immediately (finally) spotted me, pulled his drones and began aligning.  Unfortunately for him, my Jaguar is microwarpdrive equipped and I was on him, locked and scrambled before he could warp.  The inevitable was unescapable with unspeakable results.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=17872407

  His pod escaped as I had no speed locking modules fitted and he must have been mashing that button.  I picked through the wreck and got some nice mining mods.

  Of course, he wants to talk about it.

Wilo Phobic > Return to the game long enough to find out I'm at war w/someone... what fun!
Bing Bangboom > I sent you an email.
Wilo Phobic > I literally reactivated the account a few hours ago =(
Bing Bangboom > I only sent the email about an hour ago.
Wilo Phobic > Yep, there's LOTS of emails I have waiting to be red.
Wilo Phobic > read*
Wilo Phobic > If you're gone for 6 months they tend to stockpile up.
Bing Bangboom > I guess mine can wait a bit.
Wilo Phobic > Yea it's no biggie. I'll just drop corp and continue to mine while you waste time.
Bing Bangboom > good idea.
Bing Bangboom > although the email had an alternative
Bing Bangboom > see you later.
Wilo Phobic > I'll pretend I give a fuck.
Bing Bangboom > roger

  So, he's wardecced, he's mining while the only war target he's got is online, he's staying in one place, he's paying NO attention to local and of course, no tank.  If you look up the phrase "Asking for it" you will find a picture of Wilo Phobic.  With a cross reference to "Begging for it".

  This is someone who should pay for his mining permit and move on.  I will keep posting any responses I get from U.S.A.T.O plus, of course, I will be responding to the more interesting ones.  

  The war goes on.

BBB
Highsec is worth fighting for.
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Re: Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war

alanacharenteng
Bing Bangboom wrote
Wilo Phobic > Return to the game long enough to find out I'm at war w/someone... what fun!
Wilo Phobic > I literally reactivated the account a few hours ago =(
Wilo Phobic > If you're gone for 6 months they tend to stockpile up.
Wilo Phobic > Yea it's no biggie. I'll just drop corp and continue to mine while you waste time.
Wilo Phobic > I'll pretend I give a fuck.
Haha, you made him pretty cross. Welcome back to EVE!
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Re: Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war

Bing Bangboom
NOW we are talking.  It turns out Padreuk73 is as long winded as me.  In reply to his previous email I sent this.

Re: Why we fight

From: Bing Bangboom
To: Padreuk73, liberty

Citizen Padreuk73,

  What a delight to hear from you.  I must start by complimenting you as your spelling and punctuation not only greatly exceed the admittedly low standards of U.S.A.T.O but are quite good overall.

  I have found since my early days as the duly appointed representative of the DAMAG Safety Commission for Caldari space, when I was responsible for the safety of space lane navigation, that people respond better to a certain approach.  Once they are convinced that you represent a larger authority they must take you more seriously than the run-of-the-mill local chatter.  Since I am now an Agent of the New Order of Highsec, representing the actual rulers of Highsec, it's natural I continue to represent myself in this manner.

  You raise a great many points in your response and I greatly appreciate you taking the time to explain your view on the situation.  In the interest of maintaining this dialogue I offer the following points.

1)  Tristam Xavier, after a very long period of inactivity in which I think he was aquiring a college education, returned to Eve with an announcement that he was taking our corporation out of Ded End Conglomorates and moving to an alliance of someone he knew, this person turning out to be liberty.  Tristam did not consult me in any way about the move. During his long absence I was the only active member of the corporation and even the alliance AND (this is the important part) I was ALREADY an Agent of the New Order.

2)  Therefore, when DAMAG entered the U.S.A.T.O  you brought me in already established as an Agent.  As James 315 has proven time and time again; early on a lack of knowledge of the New Order was understandable but by the time this occured the New Order had spread across Eve.  No highsec dweller could honestly plead ignorance of it and its Agents.  I argue that the time to object to my activities was before you brought me into your alliance.  You might say I was drafted since I never volunteered to join or agreed to change my beliefs.  I was, in fact, never asked to ascribe to anything until later.

3)  Since the New Order exists for the betterment of highsec miners and in opposition to the bots and bot aspirants, like afk miners, I saw no reason that U.S.A.T.O could not become a Code compliant alliance.  To raise the activity and enjoyment level of my fellow alliance-mates surely must have been a goal supported by leadership.  In any alliance that really understood what Eve is and should be, I would be a valuable member, active, dedicated and reasonably skillful in creating emergent gameplay.

4)  Instead, upon joining in alliance chat after destroying a rebel miner WHO HAD ATTACKED ME FIRST, I became the object of insult and real life denigration.  Members of the alliance belittled me for not only my game play but for my life style and even my religion.  My attempts to defend my position and to get to know the other members were rebuffed and I was threatened, again both in game and in RL.  Interestingly enough, several of these members have left the alliance too so now you have neither them nor me.  I wonder if they got tossed for treating a fellow alliance member so badly.  Probably not.

5)  As far as I can tell, Tristam hasn't logged on since the war started.  Your two largest corporations are inactive and shrinking.  Because you, yourself, are more careful than most you've been able to carry on your activities.  Others have not.  Your mercenaries bled you dry without providing any useful pressure upon me. Your only current ally is provably an idiot. And last night, I destroyed a Mackinaw belonging to Wilo Phobic who was beyond careless.

6)  The war will continue.  Whether its bullying, as you say, or fighting for a true cause, as I perceive it, I will keep watching, killing, and yes, writing.  I think we both are interested to see if any others follow the path of Industria McMinerist.  And I am including liberty in this email just as you do because I want him to understand what is happening to his dream.

Highsec is worth fighting for.

Bing Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable

Today I got his answer.  This is a fascinating reply as he, of course, has an insiders view of U.S.A.T.O and the war.  Read his words and ponder...

Re: Re: Why we fight

From: Padreuk73
To: Bing Bangboom, liberty
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Bing Bangboom,

I congratulate you on your persistence.

I have no doubt that you will continue to write. I encourage it, you certainly appear to have either a talent or a passion for it. The ability to form a coherent sentence is a vastly underrated skill made more precious not less, by the ever increasing use of “text speak”.
Regarding the war, I expect you will continue it. I will admit to feeling a considerable amount of disappointment with the alliance members, who when faced with a war declaration from a “One man” corporation have chosen to hide. I had hoped that a rallying call would have produced more than a couple of willing combatants; even with limited combat skills amongst our number, weight of numbers alone would have been sufficient. However that is a matter for internal alliance politics and of little importance here.

To the matters at hand.

“as the duly appointed representative of the DAMAG Safety Commission for Caldari space, when I was responsible for the safety of space lane navigation”; as you founded the corporation and are its only member you are not “Duly appointed” you are “self-appointed”. Responsible for space lane safety? Bumping miners away from asteroids is hardly space lane safety. You use a lot of crafted language to hide what you really mean and make use of imposing titles in an attempt to imply representation of an authority.

In the hope of avoiding yet another eve mail filled with “new Order” dogma I will spell it out for you:

1. No one rules Hi sec. That is the point of high sec.

2. You do not represent any authority, you are however part of a group that simply wants to be able to tell others how to play. If you were to play FPS it is possible you would be part of a group against camping or quick scoping. Of course EVE is far more complex therefore the driving forces are consequently more complex however the underlying structure remains the same.

3. It is quite easy to be unaware of the spread of the new order (Those within an organisation tend to overstate its influence), For an organisation which in your words “has spread across eve” it does not have as large an effect as you might think. Not everyone immerses themselves in the blogs and forums for every waking minute.

4. Regardless of the lofty and idealistic chatter from the new order, it does not exist for the betterment of anyone other than the new order; its message can be distilled down into the following. I don’t like how you play; I want you to play it like this. Imagine the last sentence in the voice of a crying, temper driven child and you have the message of the new order in a nut shell.

5. You may have seen no reason that the alliance could not fall “under code”; However the presumption that it would was yours and yours alone. We could if we wished become a pirate alliance; could does not mean will.

6. “In any alliance that really understood what Eve is and should be, I would be a valuable member, active, dedicated and reasonably skilful in creating emergent gameplay.” All you are saying at this point is, “if you don’t like to play it my way then you don’t understand anything”. It is a childish sentiment and not what I expect you wanted to express.

Alliances do not make a habit of interviewing each member of a prospective corporation; that would be a full time job on its own. That said it would have been in Tristam’s interest to at least consult with before joining a mining alliance as peoples perspectives change and he had been absent for a long time. Liberty has been counselled many times regarding his policy of inviting every unaligned corporation he finds into the alliance and that policy has been the cause of considerable strife. It is presumptuous of you to assume that an alliance would become a fully signed up member “under code” simply because you were an “Agent”, one member in one corp. A dialogue would certainly have been in our interest.

With regards to your accusations of a “rebel” miner attacking you first; can I ask if you mentioned it to anyone? Do you know if the miner you claim attacked you has had any issues with the “new order”? Evidence to support your claim would lend weight to it. As the new order ransoms miners and “Ganks” those who are not operating within the code; It is possible that there could be a history behind it. I don’t think it is possible to prove those events with any certainty, nor do I feel that it would change the current situation; it is simply to satisfy my curiosity.

I cannot personally comment regarding any attacks on you in chat or in RL, if you had been verbally abused you could simply have eve mailed Liberty the chat logs and we would not have permitted that to continue. A simple matter of fact is we have expelled a corporation for verbal abuse in the chat channels. Your lifestyle and religion are none of my business until you ask my opinion on them or they start to govern or affect my life/family. You can have as many imaginary friends as you wish and that is your business.


Several Corporations have already left the alliance; that is no lie. Some plan to return once or if hostilities end, some do not. Considering we were never a combat alliance loses came as no surprise.


I have been careful and will continue to be. I have tried instructing others to do the same but the information does not always “sink in”.


Our mercenaries bled us dry? I think not. If we wished to hire mercenaries we could, easily; however the ISK would be wasted when you are not fighting a shooting war. You are prosecuting a guerrilla war. Hiring expensive mercenaries to try and find a target that does little more than sit, logged on cloaked, at a safe spot and attack soft targets would be a waste. I am not saying it is not an effective or viable tactic, just that hiring mercenaries to counter it would be a poor choice. We have enough people with enough skills to protect a mining fleet from you alone; what we appear to lack is the willingness to do so from a large number of our members. This represents the disappointment I spoke of earlier.

Will the alliance be destroyed? Who can say? It does call into question its foundations if it can be so easily shaken.

As you appear to be fond of quotes I shall provide a couple for you, to add to your collection.


Friedrich Nietzsche -

- A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.

Bertrand Russell.

The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.



Controlling Hi sec is like herding cats or juggling water.

As ever, I hope you are well and happy.

Padreuk73.

  I don't blame anyone if they didn't slog through this but finally one of them is communicating pretty clearly, although he displays a number of carebear attitudes about the New Order and Eve-fixin'.  He verifies a few things I have conjectured, mainly regarding the effect of constant wardecs on his alliance.  There is dissent in the ranks.

  I will work up my response.  I hope to hear from other members.

  BTW, Wilo Phobic has dropped to an NPC corp.

Bing Bangboom
Highsec is worth fighting for.
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Re: Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war

Rennseslear
Paddy-cake73 displayed terrible capitalization of the PROPER noun New Order, several run on sentences, and a general ignorance to how things ACTUALLY work in highsec.

It was an ok read, from his end, im glad hes not totally unaware that nearly everyone who complained about emergent gameplay from that alliance has either quit or wont undock.

He still seems super whiny, and i hope you catch him being less careful than is necessary in the near future!
Ewe Oar Sofa King We Tall Did
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Re: Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war

Bing Bangboom
Padreuk and I had one more exchange of emails.   When you read his response you will see that he says he is reading this blog.  This makes it unnecessary for me to rehash the arguments and comments I have already posted.  He clearly has read them and still maintains his position in the debate.  It has been very interesting to hear his perspective which contains many of the anti-New Order attitudes we have heard many times.  So here are the emails which I think will be the last between us for a bit.  I will follow with my comments on some specific issues at the end.

Re: Re: Why we fight

From: Bing Bangboom
To: Padreuk73, liberty

Citizen Padreuk73,

  I am glad to see you are still interested in exchanging views about our current situation.  If you have read my previous email exchanges with liberty in the FORUM section of www.minerbumping.com (Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the dogs of war) you know I am open to negotiating an end to the hostilities via the route of full Code compliance for U.S.A.T.O .  My most recent email to the entire alliance was just furthering my generous attitude by going directly to the people most affected, to wit, your poor alliance carebears.

  As I read your latest I see a few continued misunderstandings that I would like to set straight.

  As to our disagreement about whether the New Order (capitals please) rules highsec, I refer you to www.minerbumping.com, The Code, and specifically the Frequently Asked Questions.  I will concede that "controls" is a better word for the situation.

I quote:

Q. Who are you? Anyone can claim to own a highsec system. I can say I own everything in EVE!

I am James 315, the Saviour of Highsec. I do not consider myself a hero, but I acknowledge that I have done many great and heroic deeds, and I accept that others think that I am a hero.

It's true that anyone can claim control of anything. Outside of EVE, a government is considered legitimate if it has the enduring ability to send men with guns to kill or imprison other people. Upon this power hangs all the law. There's no need for philosophy here: When a miner is bumped out of mining range, he no longer has the ability to mine--and he does not even get a share of the ore/ice he mined from earlier in the laser's cycle, when he was in range. Therefore, I can stop people from mining whenever I want. Since the miners want to mine ice, and since I alone decide whether or not they can, I command them. It's really that simple.

Me again.  So, you see, we DO control highsec.  Especially since we have added mining equipment confiscation to our tactics.

  Now, about my comment about your mercenaries "bleeding you".  In week 2 of the war, the Marmite Collective joined as an ally of your alliance.  It was my understanding that they are a mercenary alliance and my conversations with Tora Bushido, the leader, confirmed that it was a paid arrangement.  My research indicated a cost of as low as 250 million and as much as 750 million ISK a week as their normal fee.  Tora Bushido also confirmed that this was a week to week arrangement and they, in fact, withdrew after a couple weeks.  This means U.S.A.T.O paid them over 500 million ISK (at least) for their services.  Perhaps you were not a part of this decision so you didn't know about it. Perhaps you got some sort of "good deal".  I just know you had mercenaries and now you don't.  My supposition is a reasonable one.

  Finally, and in complete reverse order, my title of "duly appointed representative of DAMAG Safety Commission" was what I called myself during my, now defunct, career as what was known as a "can-flipper".  I would find miners using jetcans, identify these cans to the miners as "a hazard to safe space lane navigation" (Did you know many ships were lost EVERY DAY because of those cans?  Its true.) and use a variety of methods including what you have identified as my speech patterns, written citations for illegal jetcan mining and sometimes just sitting like a crocodile at a water hole to get them to do what I wanted.  And when they did it I killed them.  Now THAT was surely against U.S.A.T.O rules but, the fact is, I never can flipped once I was in the alliance.  Mainly because CCP killed it but still...  The fact that my current corporation is called DAMAG Safety Commission is ironic humor.  Good one, huh?

  One thing I learned as a can flipper  has stood me well as both an Agent AND as your opponent during this war.  It is the difference between a PvPer and someone who will PvP if forced.  This is a fact that, once learned, makes a person like me impossible for an alliance like yours to defeat.  I share it with you so you will understand the situation your alliance is in.  It is this:

  I don't care about losing ships.

  I fight each fight desperately, using every trick and bit of knowledge I have to win and I never give up until either I or my opponent is destroyed (or escaped).  But if I lose... I just go get another ship and attack again.  I don't drop corp or move 20 jumps away or dock up for a week or not play at all.  This is what your alliance has done.  Losing a ship to them is such a gut wrenching event that they will do anything to avoid it, including not playing Eve at all.  It is a weakness inherent in being a carebear and highsec miners are the worst carebears.  And most of your guys have it bad.

  So I suggest this.  Offer to reimburse them for their losses.  It won't change everyone but it might make a few of them willing to risk an encounter with me.  Obviously they should fleet up and hunt me down and drive me wailing into the dark but lets don't expect too much too fast.  If it looks remotely like I may get something like an even fight, I will engage.  You've seen that.  You say you are a mining alliance but your name says you are an anti-terrorist organization.  I think we all know you won't stop any terrorists by mining.

  Come out and fight.  Or buy everyone a permit and have them update their bios to say "I support James 315 and the New Order of Highsec".  To continue this way will be the end of U.S.A.T.O .

Bing Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable

And Padreuk73's response:

Re: Re: Re: Why we fight

From: Padreuk73
To: Bing Bangboom, liberty

Bing Bangboom,
I will have to keep this reply brief.

I accept “controls” as a better definition of what the “New Order” does and will leave the debate regarding the extent of its control for another time and another forum.

Thank you for keeping the doctrine level of your Evemail low, high levels can make establishing meaning from the overall text tiresome.

I disagree with the James 315 definition of commanding miners and thereby controlling them. The premise of control by harassment (i.e annoying miners so much that they declare support just to be rid of you) is flawed. The New Order does not control miners, it ransoms them, bullies them into submission by harassment. The confiscation of mining equipment? Don’t make me laugh, that is out right piracy and to pretend otherwise is disingenuous. That said, the effectiveness of this tactic and the level of overall “control” it provides is not going to be decided here.

I understand your assumption regarding the current absence of mercenaries in the war effort. I refer you to the statement in my previous evemail to explain why we have not engaged their services and they are not currently declaring support.

“The difference between a PvPer and someone who will PvP if forced.” I accept this definition fully. It can be quite a journey to change that perspective.

I have no intention of debating the effects of carebears within EVE at this time.

It is not impossible for us to defeat you; very difficult, possibly expensive but not impossible.

The alliance and corporation names were not chosen by me.

You may not defeat terrorists by mining however any war effort requires resources in order to fight.

I have read your blog on the war, in fact I have for a couple of weeks now, good intelligence is always a key asset.

We could simply change our status and pay your ransom but to do so would lack honestly as we do not support it.

I have already decided what my plans are regarding the alliance and the corporation I reside in. James 315 and the New Order is not a part of it. If the rest of USATO decide to align themselves in order to prevent harassment, then they are free to pay and change their bio.

In response to one of your followers :


“The New Order” is a proper name and not a proper noun.

And I do not have to “play with myself” as his mother does all that for me.



I feel we understand each other’s perspectives and see that neither of us is likely to be convinced by discourse.


Padreuk73

 Some interesting things jump out.  Padreuk says they haven't hired mercenaries.  Tora Bushido says they were in this for ISK not ideaology.  Clearly a disconnect somewhere.  Padreuk's phrasing could mean they don't have mercs NOW but my point he was refuting doesn't claim they have them now but did in the past.  Someone, at the least, is attempting to redirect.

  Padreuk is a smart guy but seems to miss what are obvious jokes to me, like calling ganking "confiscating mining equipment".  Perhaps I've been in on the humor too long and figure everyone gets things like that.  Ditto on the playing with himself comment which I thought was a good zing at his lone play style.  His response of "yo momma" seems beneath him.

  The comment on resource gathering, while true, doesn't reflect this war since they are not actually gathering many resources and there is NO war effort on their part.  I suppose the players who have dropped to NPC corps may be sending ISK to the alliance but we all know about the willingness of highsec miners to contribute time and effort to anything beyond their own wallet.

  U.S.A.T.O is down to 48 members with 3 more drops to NPC corps.  Some of the earlier droppers have joined other corps and alliances.  At some point a corp will leave or meet my demands.  The constant wardeccing makes these the only logical moves if the corp CEO's want to stop losing their people.  Except for Padreuk73 and four other exceptions each encounter between myself and U.S.A.T.O members has resulted in them leaving the alliance or buying a permit (just one of these so far).  

  I am looking forward to the long holiday weekend that starts tomorrow.

Bing
Highsec is worth fighting for.
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Re: Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war

Zak Fey
In before, "I didn't want those members anyways."
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Re: Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war

Bing Bangboom
  A question was answered today.  You remember Industria McMinerist from his interaction with me via John E Normus.  Citizen McMinerist saw the value of Code compliance and "jerned up".  When I logged on this morning I found the following eve mail.

To whom it does not concern.

From: Industria McMinerist
To: Keelian, judderz judd, Hepitah, Khassian, Gohn Yu, Bing Bangboom, Janison Ibruin, Glephnorx, Fanniest Price, Glenphor Jandte, Killskull Bonerot, Funesan Futari

Gentlemen,

I feel I must explain my actions... when I came active after an extended vacation I came to find my corporation completely dead in comparison to what it was when I left. I saw we were in an alliance, and I frequently asked on alliance channel if anyone was here... one day, and one day only, I found one active person in our alliance. This person related a similar tale, how his corporation also stopped playing since this extended war started...

I was confused how one man could cause such widespread loss of hope...

I too lost hope since I was so alone... I sent a mail to one of my corporation members whom I thought was active, but after nearly a week there was no reply whatsoever.
No goodbye notices from anyone, no letters to the corp saying they are just waiting it out....

All I saw was one man with a personal grudge against the alliance, and dozens of inactive people who seemed to stop playing around the same time as this "war"


I tried to contact Mr. Bing Bangboom directly on several occasions... but either he chose to ignore me, or he just idles all the time.

I chose instead to extend my diplomatic path, and contact a different member of the New Order who once showed me the error of my ways and educated me on proper legal conduct, according to the New Halaima Code of Conduct... He further educated me on a way out, a path I could take so that I would not have to constantly be afraid of the one man who may or may not be merely idleing in seclusion somewhere.

I chose to take that path. I am a humble miner and freight mover, combat and political bullshit is just not my style. I chose to pay my protection money, a paltry sum compared to money I can make when I dont have to worry about the New Order, and go about my business...

Unfortunately Mr Bangboom chose to use me as an example in his propaganda letter to you folks. For that alone I am sorry.

Finally I encountered a member of my corporation who, understably, was royally pissed at my actions. At his request I chose to find a new home. WBKFC is now a sad ghost of what it once was. But I have found a small group of people with similar interests, who share a similar understanding and tolerance of the New Order.

I say to you people now, If you want to resume your normal mining activity, just pay these people off! The New Order is much bigger than one man! if you have the means to defend yourself then do so! They seem spread thin, you might have a chance! And because of course, as they like to say... HIGHSEC IS WORTH FIGHTING FOR!

  In a shocking move for me.. I wrote him back.

Re: To whom it does not concern.

From: Bing Bangboom
To: Industria McMinerist

Citizen MCMinerist,

  Thank you for this very interesting letter.  While I am sometimes accused of a lack of empathy I never forget there are real persons behind the avatars of my opponents and aquaintances.  You deserve to really understand what is happening.

  If you want to know the real story of this war and your part in it, including what happened with you and John E Normus, go to www.minerbumping.com, click on FORUM, and then read the thread "Cry 'Havoc" and let slip the dogs of war".  The thread details the war, from my perspective, from before the beginning to the current day.  You will see my observations along with conversations between myself, your alliance leadership and various other interested parties such as the leader of your one time allies. No registration is needed.

  You will also see that you were in real danger during your mining activities in the vicinity of Rens.  I was looking for you actively, apparently just before you attempted to contact me.  I did find you in station in Rens at one point but was unable to locate you mining during my limited time that day.  Your alliance mate, Wilo Phobic, was not so fortunate a few days later and it cost him a Mackinaw.

  I see from your comments that you prefer the life of a miner and hauler, eschewing combat and politics.  If you read The Code at www.minerbumping.com you will see it is the core belief of the New Order of Highsec that even miners and other highsec PvE'ers should not find a safe haven from interaction with other players.  EvE means Everyone versus Everyone.   The long ongoing nerfing of highsec PvP along with the changes to mining that have increased the botting and afk mining now so prevelant are a real danger to the future of the game.  In the best traditions of Eve Online, the New Order has taken action AS PLAYERS to reverse this trend.

  I will close with an explanation of how "one man with a personal grudge" can cause such widespread loss of hope.  The answer is, of course, that I am not just one man.  I am an Agent of the New Order of Highsec.  I am actually WE.  It is, in fact, your alliance that is a loosely associated group of "one man" players who don't have a common goal, are not bound together via a code, and only value the alliance for what it does FOR them.  It is no surprise that your alliance mates have despaired.

  I invite you to consider The New Halaima Code of Conduct as a path.  A path to not only saving your ships and pods but a path to more enjoyment, a bigger view of what makes Eve great, and a way to actually be part of the emerging future of this great game.

  The irony of you closing with the slogan I created may show you what is possible.

Highsec is worth fighting for.

Bing Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable

  I invite any U.S.A.T.O readers to go back and read the defiant words from various members and leaders of the alliance.  These strong words are now revealed as hollow, concealing an alliance paralyzed by war and slowly bleeding out to its inevitable end.  Paying the Red Pen List fines for each member of the alliance and updating both individual, corp and alliance bios to say "I(we) support James 315 and the New Order of Highsec" is the only way to save U.S.A.T.O .  

  Until this happens I will continue the war.

Bing Bangboom
Highsec is worth fighting for.
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Re: Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war

Rennseslear
In reply to this post by Bing Bangboom
since i was dragged back into this, ill just lay a touch of smack down to go with the smack-talk.

www.dictionary.com says:

proper noun
 
noun
Grammar . a noun that is used to denote a particular person, place, or thing, as Lincoln, Sarah, Pittsburgh,  and Carnegie Hall.

Also called proper name.

Compare common noun.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Origin:
1490–1500

Grammar note
Proper nouns are not normally preceded by an article or other limiting modifier, as any  or some.  Nor are they usually pluralized. But the language allows for exceptions. Proper nouns may occasionally have a definite article as part of the name, as in the case of some ships, organizations, and hotels, as The Titanic, The Humane Society,  and The Plaza.  An indefinite article is appropriate when you use a name as an exemplar: She looks like a young Elizabeth Taylor!  And there is sometimes a reason for treating a name as if it were a generic: There are four Devons in my class.  Proper nouns, usually capitalized in English, are arbitrary, in that a name can be given to someone or something without regard to any descriptive meaning the word or phrase may otherwise have.

1.)Also called a proper name.
2.)ORGANIZATIONS. i believe The New Order would constitute an organization. agree?

3.)As for my mother, i STRONGLY suggest you go and get yourself checked by a certified medical professional.  Being that i havent seen her in well over a decade, i cannot speak to the lack of cleanliness nor the rampant diseases which may be flowing through her (and by proxy) you.  Please put any differences aside and do this for me!!



Ewe Oar Sofa King We Tall Did
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Re: Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war

Bing Bangboom
 I got a bit confused in there.  What I got was Rennselear's mother looks like a young Elizabeth Taylor (YAY!) with the morals of a young Elizabeth Taylor (YAY YAY!) with the side effects of a young Elizabeth Taylor (YIPES!)

  On to the war.   I will attempt to summarize the action so as not to be too long or detailed.

  None of them log on.

  That's it.  I thought MAYBE somebody would come out since its the weekend.  Padreuk73 actually did for a bit.  The rest? Nada.

   I received a reply to my email from yesterday.

Re: Re: To whom it does not concern.
From: Industria McMinerist
Sent: 2013.05.25 08:48
To: Bing Bangboom,  

Mr Bangboom,

Let me start by saying I fully respect the work of the New Order, ever since that one day I got instantly obliterated while minding my own business... I was kinda pissed at the loss, even more annoyed that minerbumping.com hinted at some kind of warning before such a thing happened... but I got over it and read up on the code, and other stuff on minerbumping.com. I fucking love it! If I had the skills I would totally be alongside you folks doing what is best for the galaxy.

Now about that letter I wrote, I worded it in a way to appeal mostly to those dudes I left behind, I only included you as a recipient as an afterthought, because I thought you would enjoy my closing words :)

From that first time I tried to contact you in convo and you were afk or something and had autoaccept for convos... I knew I fucked up and became an active target, thats when I moved out to rens, I've played EvE long enough to know there is no such thing as safe. But its different when someone is actively looking to fuck you up specifically, Thats when I decided to try to contact someone else in the New Order in hopes to pay my dues and come into compliance with the code before I lost anything.

And to put your mind at ease, I have left that chickenshit alliance! I never really knew anyone in it, and everyone in my corp that I cared about had seemed to stop playing. Because you pointed out to the alliance that I had paid out, one of my semi active corp buddies came on and tried to chew me out, but I pretty much told him where to stick it, because I am in favor of The New Order.

I have moved on to another corporation whos members do respect the Code. There is a bright new future ahead of me my good man! I asure you I am now on the proper path and with the The New Halaima Code of Conduct as my guide I WILL be there with you to welcome the bright new future of EvE!

 


  What a fine young man/woman.  It is always great to see someone transformed by The Code.  I still have a bit to go but I hope to have them all compliant before this is over.  

Otherwise I will destroy U.S.A.T.O .

  Bing

 
Highsec is worth fighting for.
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Re: Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war

Bing Bangboom
The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood.
Otto von Bismarck


  U.S.A.T.O has completely packed it in as far as game time.  liberty himself was online but sat in a Sisters station all day.  The rest don't log on at all.

  After listening to an interesting discussion in minerbumping channel about how upset highsec miners get when they are bountied, I took a quick look at various members of my targeted alliance.  Most of them had no bounty.  

  So I gave several of them a 2 million ISK bounty.  liberty, Padreuk73, Papa Lazarough, and a few others. Haven't had any response on it yet except someone got Papa L for a 1.5 million bounty payout.  So, you're welcome, somebody.

  With a complete lack of WTs and with the urge to kill rising, I joined up with Spine Ripper, visited the lawless system of Kino, and confiscated seven Retrievers, including this one with a bizarre set of rigs to go with his shiny fittings.

 http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=17944173

  My bloodlust somewhat assuaged I returned to Ashokon to resume my watchful stance.

  Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied.
Otto von Bismarck


  Yesterday there was one event which I have to admit is a bit confusing.  U.S.A.T.O received an ally in the war.  Dec Shield joined.  Now Dec Shield is literally a shell of its former self with just one player, The Zerg Overmind, in one corp.  Since CCP patched away its reason for existence a few months ago, I thought Dec Shield had closed up shop and became a piece of Eve legend.  Not so.  Here they (he) are (is).  Since The Zerg Overmind famously does not do ship pvp I remain skeptical that this will have any effect on the war.  I suppose liberty could try something involving the dissolving of the Alliance and reforming but 1) he doesn't need Dec Shield to do that and 2) it would be very dangerous as some of the corps seem unlikely to sign up again.  If he DOES have some way to trap me out of the war I can always disband and reform my one man corp and redeclare.  This new ally seems pointless but time will tell.

All treaties between great states cease to be binding when they come in conflict with the struggle for existence.
Otto von Bismarck


Highsec is worth fighting for.

Bing Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable

 

 
   
Highsec is worth fighting for.
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Re: Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war

Manny Moons
This post was updated on .
Bing Bangboom wrote
...Yesterday there was one event which I have to admit is a bit confusing.  U.S.A.T.O received an ally in the war.  Dec Shield joined.  Now Dec Shield is literally a shell of its former self with just one player, The Zerg Overmind, in one corp.  Since CCP patched away its reason for existence a few months ago, I thought Dec Shield had closed up shop and became a piece of Eve legend.  Not so.  Here they (he) are (is).  Since The Zerg Overmind famously does not do ship pvp I remain skeptical that this will have any effect on the war...
Could this have something to do with it?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=239928

"You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life." - Winston Churchill
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Re: Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war

Bing Bangboom
  This morning I found the two following notifications in my Eve mail box.

DAMAG Safety Commission Declares War Against U.S.A.T.O. Team Germany
From: CONCORD
Sent: 2013.05.28 10:23

DAMAG Safety Commission has declared war on U.S.A.T.O. Team Germany.
Fighting can legally occur between those involved.

For your convenience we have included the appropriate CONCORD War Rules:

The weekly cost is 50,000,000.00 ISK and you will receive a bill which needs to be paid promptly to maintain the war. If the bill is not paid before it is due then the war will be cancelled. If the war is cancelled then do not pay any outstanding bills for that war.

When an active war has been cancelled, there is a 24 hour grace period during which you can still be legally attacked.

If you are at war with a corporation that joins an alliance then the war will change from being against the corporation to being against the alliance.

If you are at war with an alliance and a corporation leaves that alliance then you will still be at war with the alliance but also temporarily at war with the corporation that left. The war against the corporation that leaves an alliance lasts 24 hours during this period you can attack them until the war expires.

Should you wish to resume hostilities against such a corporation then you need to declare war again.





U.S.A.T.O. Team Germany surrenders to DAMAG Safety Commission
From: CONCORD
Sent: 2013.05.28 10:24

The war between U.S.A.T.O. Team Germany and DAMAG Safety Commission is coming to an end. U.S.A.T.O. Team Germany has surrendered to DAMAG Safety Commission. The war will be declared as being over after approximately 24 hours and DAMAG Safety Commission will be unable to declare war on U.S.A.T.O. Team Germany for the next 2 weeks.


Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!  WHOA!  There's no surrendering in my war.  At least not without massive reparations and the buying of permits and updating of bios.

  So, did a little investigating.  Found out that U.S.A.T.O. Team Germany only had one guy left in it, fellow named Dealtus, who sealed the deal by closing the corp and leaving for another corp.  So, U.S.A.T.O is only down one guy (and one corporation).  I don't think this is something caused by the Dec Shield alliance.  I think its just one guy who had had enough and left.  Because it was a one man corp it caused the chain reaction of wardecs and surrendering.

  The main thing bothering me is that he could surrender without my approval.  I should be able to accept or reject a surrender.  Maybe its because the war dec transferred and I hadn't paid the 50,000,000 ISK fee yet.  Or is there another button smashing that needs to be done to put my terms in?  It doesn't seem right that a defender should be able to surrender his way out of a wardec without the aggressors terms being met.  I'm sure such a "Get out of jail free" card doesn't actually exist or no non mutual war would last more than the time it took for the defender to hit "surrender".

  In the words of a famous TV show from nineteen seventy mrrphph, "Wha happened'?

Bing
Highsec is worth fighting for.
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Re: Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war

Audrik Villalona
I could be wrong, but my understanding is that he closed the corp down first, leaving a corp with 0 members, which autosurrenders all wars as part of going into nonexistence.
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Re: Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war

Zak Fey
Yeah, surrenders is a lose term thrown around, its more or less a termination of the war because there is nobody left to war dec in the corp.

Its the same thing James 315 uses to win all his wars in an efficient matter.
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Re: Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war

Bing Bangboom
  Manny Moons appears to be correct about Dec Shield entering my war as an ally of U.S.A.T.O .  I checked the link he provided and, after a day to update, Dec Shield was composed of the corporations that the Zerg Overmind said he was drafting into every war he could find.  I've put Dec Shield on terrible status but, despite moving around quite a bit in the last few days, haven't seen any of them.  I suspect they are mostly inactive players.

  My opponents have not been on when I've been watching.  I see a lot of activity by former members of the alliance, particularly Dealtus and Industria McMinerist.  In addition, Wilo Phobic took his alt out of alliance too and I've seen both of them on line.  Its possible that some of them may still be supporting the alliance while out of corp but most appear to have moved on, joining other corporations.  In fact, I think there are only four active members of U.S.A.T.O .  They are an interesting mix.

liberty - a Dutch fellow.  Promises the world to you if you join his corporation.  Has big ideas but no actual plan.  Here is some of what you get if you join up....

United system's against terrorist organisations
usato prime
Welcome to the small corp with big things in mind, with the experience in eve to boot.
who here has aims of wanting to go out deep to own part of eve n scrap to defend it, who has initiative too strive too create something in eve here, as looking for a like minded good crew too achieve the bigger picture that is the dream all have in eve, if so contact us here at USATO Prime. At USATO Prime we can help u out building from the humble frigate to the great carriers, hulks too orcas, want too get in some these ships well sure if put in the time n effort can be done, we at USATO Prime can muster up even a titan with good team behind us so contact us here at USATO Prime today.
We offer our members :
* Pilot development & advice from senior members
* skill book Programs (free skills up to 1mil isk higher in special circumstances)
* Mining equipment, skills & ship's to dedicated miners
* High sec ore/ice mining opp's with orca support
* Ship building assistance, built at cost of minerals with bigger builds such as battlecruisers & battleships Ect.
* Pve Lv1 - Lv4 mission running opp's
* Rigging and ship upgrades provided (so all salvage needed to build rigs)
* Ship replacements ( to lost in corp opp's / pvp corporate combat)
* Exploration and wormhole operations available
What we're looking for in you :
- No Sp requirements
- Active player's ( of course RL taking priority though as things do happen)
- Dedicated pilots who are willing to work towards something larger
- Pilots willing to work as team players towards goals (their own as well as corps)
- If new to eve willing too learn, if veteran eve players willing too teach others.
Now recruiting fighters, miners and haulers we are looking for team players too ensure the growth of this corporation wat ever your preferences we can help u with advancing your character and providing u with what ever needs you have be it ships n equipment, isk n adventure, skills n advice in the world of EVE. All we ask of u is that u do your part too help us too help you. We provide n support u as long as u help us. our bpo operation is growing as well so soon what ever you need as long as do part we can provide.
currently more urgent required positions.
** Miner’s
** mission runner's
For more info contact us at U.S.A.T.O Prime. ** HQ - Ashokon **
Fancy cake come n follow


  I note there is nothing there that says if your dream is to be an Agent of the New Order that this would be a problem.  

Padreuk73 - I'm thinking a North American from the way he writes and spells.  Appears to be primarily involved in mission running as an activity.  Ironic that he asked me why I joined a mining alliance when he also doesn't appear to be one.  This is a common thing among the remaining active players.  P73 flies Drakes, Buzzards, a Golem and I did see him in a mining ship once but I think it was bait for a trap.

Hepitah - another probable North American.  Has greatly dropped off his activity since I caught him in a mission.  Interestingly he left a large null sec alliance and joined U.S.A.T.O , a "minning alliance" but does not mine.  Another mission runner.  Used a Proteus until he lost it to rats.  

Syrax Vanity - of some Celtic-extract culture.  Haven't seen him much lately although since he was 2-0 against me he has least to fear of all of them.  Flys the Myrmidon that he used to kill me with Hob IIs.  A 2006 veteran who does actually appears to be a miner at heart but has not done any mining (that I've seen) since wardec.

  The word "active" is a stretch even for them.  The pattern beyond these four has been consistent.  A player logs on, I make an appearance, sometimes attacking, sometimes just in system, we converse, and then they drop corp.  Dealtus topped that by dropping the corp from the alliance and closing the corp by dropping out.  This alliance either had an immediate negative reaction to the wardec or it was already in trouble activity-wise.  I suspect the later as they had received a significant beating in the war just previous to mine with a number of players lost in March 2013.  I may be playing the role of the hyena in my war after the lions had already eaten their fill.  Interestingly, the two druids who played a special role in getting me kicked left about then and formed their own corp.  They have been quite active throughout the period of the war.  I will just say I haven't forgotten them....

  In any case, the time has come to directly communicate my demands to liberty.  I will post the email once I've sent it and hopefully, receive a reply.

Bing Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable
Highsec is worth fighting for.
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